The Baker's Dozen #13...Evan Wivell from REACT! Records

As a straight edge kid, I’ve always had a soft spot in my heart for a good youth crew band…I mean, who doesn’t? However, as I’ve gotten older I must admit that the soft spot has gotten a little harder; it’s pretty easy for any band to throw on some X watches, play some completely generic, cookie-cutter spirit of 88 jams and immediately have a following (only to sell out 6 months or a year later). Seems too easy (and predictable) in most cases.

That said, I have been psyched on React Records from day one. Aram always struck me as an amazing guy; I absolutely loved both Champion and Betrayed, and what set React apart (aside from the crucial layouts and generally pretty legit bands) was the fact that there was always an insert with an essay in all their releases that encouraged compassion, critical thinking, etc.

Fast forward to about a year ago; the label was taken over by Evan Wivell from the ever-amazing Mindset. Being an old dude with a fam I haven’t had the chance to travel to any of the big fests to catch them (cough…come to Detroit!) but from photos and videos I’ve seen on the web as well as from people who have seen them, they are clearly the most explosively energetic band currently jamming the ‘core.

If you haven’t picked anything up from them over the last few years as the label has been picking up steam, here’s your wake-up call….this is the definitive straight edge label of our time.  

Describe how you stumbled into the punk and hardcore community. When did you know it was probably going to become a permanent fixture in your life?

With the exception of a few Green Day CDs I picked up in middle school, my first real introduction to punk was early in high school. I'm not really sure how or why, but at some point I stopped hanging out with the normal, boring, weekend party crowd and started driving to shows with Mike (who plays guitar in Mindset and has been my best friend for over 10 years) and his weirdo friends. Everything sorta spiraled out of control from there. I don't really remember what my perspective was at 16, but I'm still here and I'm not going anywhere.

What could have possibly prompted you to think it would be a good idea to start a money pit (record label)?

Good question! My story is unique considering I didn't actually start my label; I "inherited" it after it had already been established and operating fairly smoothly for a few years. I had been helping Aram (the guy who started REACT! Records) for a few months, initially with graphics and then eventually taking on more responsibility. I suppose I was being groomed for the role, but sometime towards the middle of 2012 he approached me about taking over ownership of the label. I had been involved for long enough to appreciate the financial reality of owning an essentially non-profit business, but running a label is so rewarding that I knew I would make it work one way or another. Deciding to take over the label was the product of my love for hardcore and my appreciation of what the label had done for me. I wanted to be the guy who kept the machine running.

When you consider signing/working with bands, how do you balance your own personal feelings towards the band and their music with what you see as the potential for the thing to actually sell a few copies and for you to recoup your money? Which generally takes precedence?

Without a doubt, my personal feeling towards a band takes precedence over any potential financial success. I only release records of bands I really care about and who I feel make a positive contribution to the legacy of the label and hardcore in general. I feel like my genuine enthusiasm for the band and the label's reputation for quality 'core will sell a few copies to people who understand and appreciate where we're coming from.

What gets you more stoked…..getting YOUR copies of a record in from the plant, or hearing the BANDS reaction to getting THEIR records from the plant?

I'm always very happy and very relieved when a completed project arrives at REACT! HQ, but there's nothing cooler than helping a band make a record a reality and having them be completely satisfied on the finished product. My relationship with REACT! had a huge impact on my life and being able to pass that down to other people, especially younger people, gets me fucking stoked.

In your experiences, what are the best places to press vinyl/get your jackets and inserts printed, and what are the worst places? Why?

Honestly I don't have a ton of experience with different pressing plants or printers. REACT! brokers all of our projects through a company called SAMO, and they've been incredibly helpful and dependable project after project. We press everything through Rainbo, and the quality of their vinyl is really great.

Your fairy god mother grants your wish and you get to put out a split with any two bands on the planet. Who shares the wax and why?

I've been dreaming of a WarXGames and Peace split 12". War and Peace. Get it? I think the idea speaks for itself.

Talk about the most frustrating and the most rewarding things about running a label.

Frustrating: Relying on people who don't share your passion/vision, being in debt. 
Rewarding: Approving test presses, having an idea grow into a tangible artifact.

For people who are considering jumping in and starting a label, what’s the one essential piece of advice you would give them?

Get a credit card. Really, my advice would be that you shouldn't start a label unless you're really committed to it, don't make promises you can't keep, and never lose sight of what is important: releasing good music from good bands. But seriously, get a credit card.

Talk a little bit about the changing of the guard at REACT! with Aram handing the label over to you. Was it a sudden decision or an idea that was floated and then gradually became a reality?

Like I mentioned earlier, I had been involved at different levels with the label for awhile before I took control. It was more of a slow transition, which was definitely a wise decision on Aram's part. There is a lot involved with running a label, with running a small business, and it’s not something I could have jumped into in one day. Long story short, I began helping out with different tasks, was eventually approached about taking over and given some time to think about it, and slowly took responsibility of the day to day operation of the label. I took ownership on October 1st of 2012, so almost exactly one year ago. 

One of my favorite things about how the label has operated in the past is that while fast, 80's inspired, youth crew hardcore has always been the heart of the label, there have also been sort of "left field" bands like Damages, Skin Like Iron and even Give & Remission to mix things up a bit. Going forward, do you intend to keep throwing in different flavors here and there or will the focus be more on youth crew oriented bands?

My focus is definitely on releasing records from the "classic" REACT! style hardcore band, although I've always appreciated the weirder releases that Aram dropped from time to time. I am very cognizant of the label's reputation, and it’s something I intend to maintain. However, I think the more unexpected releases strengthen the label's catalog. While Aram and I both find ourselves grounded in classic 80's hardcore, we obviously enjoy a wide range of musical styles. I would say that while Aram's taste leaned towards post-hardcore (Damages, Fell to Low), mine leans towards punk (WarXGames, Suspect). I consider the Angel Du$t 7" to be a bit of a departure from the norm, and I don't think many people saw that one coming.

One of the things that I personally lament the most about hardcore over the last decade or so but I'd say the past 5 years in particular is that there seems to have been a shift away from bands spreading a message of positivity and/or critical thinking to a whole slew of bands that seem to be nothing more than postured evil..... who can be more negative, more grim, etc. I'm curious what you think can be done (if anything) to shift that perspective a little bit towards something that emphasizes hardcore and punk as a space for progressive ideas, personal growth, etc.

I definitely agree with that observation, and I would consider running a record label that emphasizes positivity and substance to be a fairly substantial effort towards shifting the paradigm. The most I can do is promote the things I'm into, to help create music that I like and that adds something to the conversation. Regardless of what’s trendy at the moment, there will always be labels that stay true to the original ideals that make hardcore different than other genres of music.

Obviously you love every record you put out or you wouldn’t spend thousands of dollars on them, but let’s be real here; what’s the one record from your catalog that you listen to the most/that has the most value for you and why?

This probably sounds arrogant, but the most important record I've released is of my own band, MINDSET. Our LP, “Leave No Doubt”, was the first record I released as the owner of the label and being able to have complete control in the writing, design, production, and distribution of a record, from conception to birth, has been a dream of mine since I discovered punk. A close second is the new Caught In A Crowd 7", still in production, which is one of the first records of a band that has given me as much satisfaction as one of my own. They were the first band I signed when I took over, and watching that bands growth has been incredible. I see a lot of parallels between them now and the early days of MINDSET, and I know how awesome it was to be in their shoes.

On the theme “Baker’s Dozen”, what do you have cooking for the rest of 2013 and into early 2014? Give us a virtual taste of what we can expect from you.

Wrapping up 2013, we've got the much anticipated PRAISE LP (FFO: Turning Point, Dag Nasty, Verbal Assault), a 12" EP from So Cal’s SUSPECT (members of Tear It Up, Deep Sleep, Knife Fight), and a compilation 7" featuring 6 of today's coolest young and up-and-coming straight edge bands. This is the first public announcement of that comp, keep your ear to the ground for more info coming soon. 2014 is going to be a crazy year for REACT!, we've got lots of LP's and a mess of new signings, and more of what people have come to expect from REACT! Records.

REACT! HQ: http://www.itstimetoreact.com/
Bedroom Finger-Pointing: http://reactrecords.bandcamp.com/
Spend That Loot: http://shop.react-records.com/

The Baker's Dozen #12...Brendan DeSmet and Bill Tsitsos from Protagonist Music

Protagonist Music is an awesome label run by a couple of vets of the hardcore scene, Brendan DeSmet and Bill Tsitsos. Over the last several years they’ve had an amazing and very diverse run; putting out music from bands as wide ranging as Black Kites, Zann and Amber to Teenage Cool Kids, Algernon Cadwallader, and Coping.

Their label in many ways stands as a testament to how the d.i.y. community runs across borders and geography. Not only have they put out records for bands all over the world, but Brendan lives in Tucson while Bill resides in Baltimore.

Read on about one of the best and constantly refreshing labels around.

Describe how you stumbled into the punk and hardcore community. When did you know it was probably going to become a permanent fixture in your life?

Brendan: I had an older cousin who really introduced me to punk, although having grown up in Los Angeles; I would hear bits and pieces on KROQ Radio as well. Anyway, about ’84 my cousin gave me some mix-tapes with Minor Threat, TSOL, Generation X, Misfits, 45 Grave, Necros, 7 Seconds, and a bunch more on them. I was 11 years old, impressionable, and completely overwhelmed by it all. It seemed like a bad idea, and that really appealed to me. Once I started playing in punk bands during my freshman year of high school, it was cemented as part of my reality. I mean, I was still listening to new wave, heavy metal and early hip-hop throughout the 80’s too, but punk just attached itself and has stuck with me like an extra limb ever since.

Bill: Brendan & I are the same age, but I didn't get into “alternative” music until the late 1980s, mainly through a friend of mine who listened to the state university's radio station in Albany, NY. He bought a couple records (The Fall “Kurious Oranj” and Ministry “Land of Rape & Honey”) that I thought were amazing, and then we started going into the city with another friend of ours to buy records. Around the same time we started going to shows as well. I never thought that the music/scene was connected to “punk.” All the shows we went to see were called “hardcore” shows, so for me everything was hardcore, even when the music wasn't fast. I didn't have any identification with “punk” until I started reading MaximumRocknRoll around 1994, when every sentence in MRR was about defining what was punk.

What could have possibly prompted you to think it would be a good idea to start a money pit (record label)?

Brendan: What makes you think that we ever thought it was a “good” idea?!? Haha. You know, I purposely haven’t read the other label interviews you’ve done for this series so far, because I didn’t want to be influenced by their answers before giving my own…but I’m definitely looking forward to reading the other responses to this one. Anyway, in short, we talked about doing a label to possibly find some old 90’s hardcore releases to re-issue, and while that idea was germinating, other release opportunities arose, so we took them on. It was supposed to be short-lived, just a way to be involved for a while, and then it just kept moving along. So here we are 6 years on; neck deep in a money-pit, and wondering when it’s all going to implode. In the meantime, we get to work with a ton of amazing bands, and it feels good to have given something back, while ushering some great new music into people’s lives.

Bill: I have 2 answers: I really wanted the Absinthe discography to come out, but I felt that Brendan would not be a part of it unless I was pushing for it. So starting a label with him seemed like a way to apply constant pressure for it to happen. 5+ years and 30+ releases later, I don't really push for that discography to happen anymore. On a more general level, I made a conscious decision to try and “give back” to the scene by helping bands put out records. I view(ed) the label as a literal investment in the scene. Part of this (and everything else I do) was guilt-related: I spent so much time in the early 2000s on VLV (and earlier on Skylab) buying hardcore/screamo records for as little $ as I could possibly pay for them. By the mid 00's, I started to ask myself why I was seemingly so unwilling to put my own money into supporting the music that I liked so much. When I got a decent-paying job, I decided that the time to give back had arrived.

When you consider signing/working with bands, how do you balance your own personal feelings towards the band and their music with what you see as the potential for the thing to actually sell a few copies and for you to recoup your money? Which generally takes precedence?

Brendan: The label began as a labor of love and a way to stay involved with a scene we’ve enjoyed for many years. Salability really doesn’t figure into the equation, other than our desire to be wise enough with our resources so as to keep the ball rolling. In other words, we don’t want to sink the ship with one unsuccessful release and ruin the chance to work with more great bands…but just take a look at our catalog…we’re obviously not much for choosing bands or styles of music based solely on their marketability. We’ve been all over the map, musically speaking, and we don’t run the label very much like a business. The bands we work with are our friends, artists who have inspired and/or entertained us, and folks that we want to share with as many others out there as we can.

What gets you more stoked…..getting YOUR copies of a record in from the plant, or hearing the BANDS reaction to getting THEIR records from the plant?

Brendan: Hard to say, but I’ll lean slightly toward hearing the bands reaction. When it all goes well, their genuine appreciation is really quite enjoyable for me. However, it’s hard to downplay the fact that I’m just as excited for their releases to come to fruition as they are. I guess that’s why we do this.

Bill: For me, it's entirely about the bands' happiness. When I receive records, I invariably feel a sense of despair along the lines of “These covers are all dinged!” and/or “This vinyl is warped!” and/or “That took forever!”

In your experiences, what are the best places to press vinyl/get your jackets and inserts printed, and what are the worst places? Why?

Brendan: Oh man. We have been all over the place in our 6 years. All I can say is that Alpha Music in Florida ripped us off big time on pressing the Flashlights record, basically ruining that experience for us and the band. So beware of those fuckers. As for the many others we’ve worked with here and in Europe, the experiences vary by the business, and even project by project. Imprint Indie Printing are excellent. Rainbo Records is a slow but solid pressing plant. Dave Eck at Lucky Lacquers is an absolute gem, as is Josh Bonati at Bonati Mastering.

Your fairy godmother grants your wish and you get to put out a split with any two bands on the planet. Who shares the wax and why?

Brendan: On the planet, meaning functioning at the moment? Well, keeping it semi-realistic as far as our “scene” and excluding bands associated with our label, I guess I’d say Kite Party and Youth Avoiders.

Talk about the most frustrating and the most rewarding things about running a label.

Brendan: Reward = Having a hand in the creation of new art and expression, staying associated with the energy and possibility that lives in hardcore punk, and cultivating the friendships. Frustration = Everything else about it.

Bill: Reward = Helping out people & bands that I like while also remaining connected to the scene as I get older. Doing the label allows me to continue going to shows without feeling like one of the old men who I used to make fun of for going to shows when I was younger.

Frustration= see question #4

For people who are considering jumping in and starting a label, what’s the one essential piece of advice you would give them?

Brendan: Don’t do it! No, just kidding. Well, mostly. In truth, I think there are too many labels and bands these days. It has become much easier to access the public in recent years and easier to put your label/band out there without having had to work for it for any length of time. The advent of the digital age has sped up the process so much, that it has essentially created a population explosion while, in turn, stunting the actual “growth” of its participants. Bands and labels used to take years of transformation, mutation, and “aging” before they gained much public attention, which had the effect of killing off some of the weaker members of the herd. The immediacy and convenience of today’s scene has essentially destroyed musical Darwinism, and without much natural selection afoot, we’re all sifting through ever-growing piles of half-realized music. 

That being said, I still appreciate the DIY ethic, and the spirit that is embodied by “kids” taking charge of their own scenes and favorite local bands, and making them concrete by putting out records and tapes. That is the core of everything. I just hope it’s not a desire to wind up in Hot Topic or on Warped Tour that motivates the prospective record label these days, but it seems to have done so often over the recent decade or so. Get into it for the passion, keep it rolling with some responsibility, and remember that success is relative.

Bill: I have 2 pieces of advice. First, don't put out 7-inches unless you’re comfortable charging at least $6 (plus postage) to maybe make back the money that you spent. While making money is not my goal with this label, it sucks to put money and time into something when you’re pretty sure that you have no chance of at least breaking even. That just makes it financially harder to keep releasing records. About 5 years ago, I was talking to someone who runs a reasonably successful label, and he said that he just views 7-inches as a form of advertising for the label. He doesn't expect to sell all/many of them, but some people might see/hear the record, like it, and decide to check out other releases. So if you're comfortable with that approach, put out all the 7-inches you want. 

Second, be very careful about putting out records by bands that don't tour. We've done it, and sometimes I think it's worth it, because I love the music so much. But if you don't feel that strongly about a band, and they don't really tour, think twice.

I definitely feel you on the Warped/Hot Topic piece. Even on the more underground side of things, one of the biggest changes I have noticed over the last decade and a half or so is that punk and hardcore have become so much more professionalized (i.e. booking agents, package tours, etc.). While I can see how some of this is beneficial to bands, I also feel like it kills a lot of the more personal aspects of the d.i.y. scene. What would you say is behind this and how do you see it playing out?

Brendan: It's never a bad thing for bands/labels to handle themselves in a "professional" fashion, that is to say, not just fuck off and do things in a half-assed way because that's been the acceptable punk method, but to take pride in getting things accomplished. But then this under-current of possibility that punk could become your day job somehow, while obviously somewhat antithetical to punk in the first place, has been made all the more realistic for "kids" by it actually happening on a regular basis these days. I mean, I am absolutely all for people making a living in ways other than flipping burgers or sitting in a cubicle, but it does serve to further the commodification of the medium, don't you think? 

I guess I'm just looking for some genuine angst and energy in the bands I listen to, and that seems to be getting washed out in favor of the fashion and business aspect of much of what passes for hardcore punk anymore.

Bill: There will always be a d.i.y. component to punk/hardcore, and in my opinion, that's the best part of it. That said, I have felt bad that some of the bands on our label have not achieved the large-scale success that I think they deserve. For a while, I couldn't understand why Towers was not the biggest band in the world. I was talking to a couple of the band members about it once in NYC before they played ABC No Rio, saying stuff like, "You should be playing stadiums full of people!" 

They stared at me and said something about how that wasn't really what they wanted to do, and it really reset my approach and reminded me why I loved the band (and the d.i.y. scene as a whole), even though it means that we still have a box full of unsold Towers cassettes.  I wish for bands who want to take the "professional" route to have a good experience, but that route involves sacrificing a lot of the personal connections that are so valuable. 

In terms of the evolution of the scene, I also feel like things have become way less politicized. Brendan, obviously in Groundwork, and with both of you in Bury Me Standing, your music was very political. Some of the bands on Protagonist seem fairly outspoken whereas many are not. To what extent do your politics and the politics of the bands you work with factor into how you run the label?

Brendan: For me, personal politics do play some role in the way the label is operated, and to a lesser degree, in who we work with...but it's not as overt as writing lyrics for a band. There are no requirements for bands to have a certain political outlook or agenda to be involved with Protagonist, but we would never want to work with a band that had produced art/music that promoted a homophobic, sexist, racist, or otherwise bigoted viewpoint. And when I have a chance to work with bands that line up well with my sense of social justice, etc, then I'm all the more excited to lend them my support. Over all, I see the label as a much broader vehicle for expression than my own personal, possibly narrow, views on the world

Obviously you love every record you put out or you wouldn’t spend thousands of dollars on them, but let’s be real here; what’s the one record from your catalog that you listen to the most/that has the most value for you and why?

Brendan: In the last few months I’ve been listening to the Secret Smoker LP and the new Sed Non Satiata LP quite often. And if there was one release that I have returned to the most, it would probably be Teenage Cool Kids “Queer Salutations.” But overall, rather than one band, or one release standing out over the labels lifespan, it’s been our relationship with Tom Schlatter and his bands. We’ve had the pleasure of working with In First Person, Black Kites, and Capacities, and while I know this will embarrass him if he reads it, I can honestly say that our friendship is one of the most memorable aspects of this label for me. He is a killer musician and a genuinely awesome fella. So the beauty of the label is that, much like with Tom, we continue to connect with more and more amazing folks, developing new friendships that I hope will last, and those will ultimately define the character of Protagonist once it’s all said and done.

Bill: Big Kids “Hoop Dreams” evokes so many positive feelings about being associated with this music scene. It makes me think wistfully about things that usually gross me out, like hugging people & not showering. I played that record constantly for a long time, from when we initially received the recording until after the LP came out. 

From more recent releases, I played the Secret Smoker LP until my record player stopped working at 45rpm. That's the record that I referred to in the last question. I had no expectation that they would tour, but the music was so strong that I never questioned whether or not we should put it out. When they decided to do some touring this summer, it was a pleasant surprise. Also, the second Teenage Cool Kids album, “Foreign Lands,” took so long to come out that I didn't even listen to it for 2 years after we finally got it, because putting it out was such a shitty experience. Since then, I've really come to love it.

Also, I second Brendan's comments about Tom. I met him when I was house-sitting in Long Beach, CA, many years ago. He stayed at that house after a show on tour with This Ship Will Sink, but he was so sick that he just fell asleep in a room full of stuffed animals. Years later, Brendan sent me a link to the In First Person page on MySpace, and when I realized that he was in the band, I remember thinking, “Oh, that guy!” Since I moved to the East coast 6 years ago, it's been great to get to know him and to see him & his bands so many times.

How do things work with one of you guys on the East coast and the other out West? Obviously electronic communication makes it fairly easy to work with people anywhere in the world now, but do you guys ever set aside time to physically get together and plan out releases, handle issues related to the label, etc.?

Brendan: Since Bill still has significant connections to Tucson, he visits here at least once a year, and I have made several trips out east over the last few years as well. That gives us a chance to re-connect not only as label-mates, but also as good friends. Summer of 2012 we traveled together with Sed Non Satiata and Big Kids around the Midwest and east coast, and it was a blast! A few years back we met up at FEST in Florida, too, which was also a ton of fun. Obviously the many miles of separation has its downside, but we seem to get around that pretty well.

On the theme “Baker’s Dozen”, what do you have cooking for the rest of 2013 and into early 2014? Give us a virtual taste of what we can expect from you.

Acid Fast “Rabid Moon” LP
Coping “Nope” LP

Plus several releases in the works that we can’t divulge quite yet.

Protagonist HQ: http://www.protagonistmusic.com/wordpress

Jam the Jams: http://protagonistmusicaz.bandcamp.com/

Flex the Credit Card: http://protagonistmusic.bigcartel.com/